Episode 046 Tzu-Chuan Lin

Show Notes

This week on the show we're visiting with another emerging professional in the time-based media conservation field. Tzu-Chuan Lin is currently finishing up a masters degree focused in conservation of new media and digital information at the State Academy of Fine Arts in Stuttgart, and in his studies there, he’s been conducting some very needed research on the documentation and conservation of artworks that use a tool called Max/MSP – which a sort of visual programming language that has been around for decades and has a high likelihood of being found in any collection of time-based media art that includes interactive installations. Before starting his conservation studies in Stuttgart, Tzu-Chuan worked as a project coordinator in the collections management department at the National Taiwan Museum of Fine Arts, and together with his collaborator Yuhsien Chen, who we’ll be having on the show in the very near future, has put a lot of work into building local time-based media conservation expertise in Taiwan. We covered so much ground in this chat – tune in to hear Tzu-Chuan's story!

Links from the conversation with Tzu-Chuan
> An analysis of software-based artworks using Max/MSP through different conservation strategies: https://flame.firebird.systems/AIC/AIC2022/MyProgrammes#Submission.ItemPage.79478.0.SubmissionType.b85b5825-b1ac-40ee-be77-aea3b40bb5e6
> Save Media Art project: https://savemediaart.wixsite.com/sma-tw

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Ben: From Small Data Industries, this is Art and Obsolescence. I'm your host, Ben Fino-Radin, and on this show, I chat with people that are shaping the past present and future of art and technology. Well folks, we are back with new episodes, and this week we are visiting with an emerging professional in the time-based media conservation world. 

[00:00:20] Tzu-Chuan: Hello. My name is Tzu-Chuan Lin and currently I'm a media conservation master student.

[00:00:27] Ben: Tzu-Chuan is currently finishing up a master's degree, focused in the conservation of new media and digital information at the State Academy of Fine Arts in Stuttgart. And among other things, in his studies there he's been conducting some very needed research on the documentation and conservation of artworks that use a tool called Max MSP. Which if you're not familiar, is a sort of visual programming language that has been around for decades and has a high likelihood of being found in any collection of time-based media art that includes, for instance, interactive installations. Before starting his conservation studies in Stuttgart Tzu-Chuan worked as a project coordinator in the collections management department at the National Taiwan Museum of Fine Arts. We covered so much ground in our chat, including hearing about Tzu-Chuan's origins as an artist himself and I am thrilled to share our chat with you all this week. Before we dive in just a reminder that if you've been enjoying the show, leaving a review on whatever platform you've been using to listen to the show is deeply appreciated. It really helps juice the algorithm and cut through the noise and it helps other people discover the show. Thanks so much to all of you that have already left such glowing reviews, you are appreciated. Now without further delay, let's dive into this week's chat with Tzu-Chuan Lin 

[00:01:45] Tzu-Chuan: I grew up in the Taipei City what we call now New Taipei City just around these two cities. From the childhood my parents took me to painting class. When I go to high school, I choose the vocational high school. And I major in advertisement design, which is like doing graphic design and posters. In that time didn't have video, but we do have Computer graphic. We do Photoshop, illustration like this. So from that way, I kind of from the painting, moved to the computer program or using the software to do the graphics design. I think we are lucky in that time, because our school, we have like Mac computers. It's not often in the high school. So they offer kind of more professional equipment to us to learn how to do the computer graphic. Then after that, I go to the technological university. So where I go is more like training to be like technically in design art, so in university I chose to study digital media design. We use like Flash to do the animation or even use Flash in that time to do the interactive installation. And also, uh, in the class we learned Processing, and also like, Arduino to do the interactive installation. After study in university, I also not so sure whether I should study further because we have to go to the military, then I just try to apply the master program in the art university. And I was accept to study there. After university, I studied new media art in the National Taiwan, University of Arts. So yeah, so let's a point, like I change it a bit from the design. To the art field in that time, really in the first semester, I already feel a little bit different. How we learn design is also like served to resolve the questions and art could be also solve the problem or questions, but it also could be more individual like expression yourself. In the third and fourth year, I more get into video editing or video, effects this direction. So after that I follow a professor who does video art. Also in this period we learned visual programming language, like vvvv, or Max MSP, or Pure Data, all of that. So during that time also, still learning a lot of new things. After graduate, we have to do one year to the military. And in that time we can choose to do civil service. So, in this altern, we have to training in the month, then after month we can choose like ministry of culture, ministry of the education, like these kind of things. Then after I choose to go to a museum so I decided to go to collection department. This museum where I work is national Taiwan, Museum of Fine Arts is directly under the ministry of culture in Taiwan. And they would like to support the younger artists. So they have a policy. They collect the younger artist artworks through a project or open call. Every year it has a chance the younger artists can give their artworks to the museum. So in that time doing this kind of project, the museum has collected a lot of media artwork and also there's some, several famous Taiwanese media artists, or video artists in the early days, the museum also acquired their artwork into the collection. So we have several things. And as I began with the civil service in the museum, in the collection department, there's one exhibition in that time and there was a video art installation by a Taiwanese artist called Yung Kwong Ming and it's a installation is a bed and the projector will project the image on the bed. And there are four metal ball on the corner on the frame and you can touch it and will switch the video image the title of the work called Reasons Of Insomnia. So it's like a idea that you can't sleep. So the video image will be like the burning image and the bed scratch by the knife. These kind of things, scary things. The artwork in that time is not function well. And my cheif in the collection department, tell me, maybe you can check what happened with that artwork because no one familiar with that in our department. So could you have a look? Because my background is new media art, my cheif say, yeah, you can check it. What happened to it? So I just check the computer and look into the software, and because it used the signal called RS 23 2 interface, I check whether the connection is all function of the four metal balls. Then I check, they work. And I think but the software that from the artist is not working properly. So we ask for the artist about that and he told us that because in that time, when he produced this artwork, he has that idea and he gathered the people like programmer but nowadays he doesn't have connect with that programmer anymore. So we have to kind of find out the solution for him or try to find what can we do. The pattern of the interactive is not very complicated. It has like four to five video clips. Once you touch the metal ball, you will randomly switch to the other video clip. So you know, the time code, then you jump into that time code. And once end of the play, then you jump to the other clip or it jump to like a situation that is quiet. So based on that, we talk about with the artist, how we deal with that. And how we can make it work again. I'm not really good at programming, but I started testing, like using Pure Data, what I have in the master degree that I learned and trying to use Pure Data. , to connect things, to jump up, but I'm not really good enough I think, so asked for help from my friend, that he's programmer, and he also can programming in Processing. So we are trying to using Processing to reproduce this interactive software part. And we encounter several issue in that time. The original software was a executable file. So we can't really go back into the edited mode or look into the code, we only can do is like what that we understand and also ask the artist how his idea about that. And so we using Processing to reproduce his software part. And once we turn into the Processing, there's kind of library issue or something like that because the original computer is Windows XP, operating system but the Processing cannot running on that platform anymore and so we discuss a bit, whether we just using this opportunity to upgrade the computer so we kind of using another computer to build up the environment and with the Processing and running the program and connect back to the installation, make it working again. So that's the, first experience I have. That started my journey. For me, it's also fun because otherwise what can I do? It's like to do the department assistant it's like, sending the paper to the other department or doing like this in in, instead of that sitting on the exhibition hall and fixing, this is kind of interesting for me also. So it's the beginning.  After that in that time Yu-Hsien my colleague , also doing her master program in museum study. And did internship in the Netherland and look into the CD-ROM and make it accessible again. And I asked her do you have interest in also coming into the museum to work with media art? I don't know in these times to say conservation or not, because it's more take care about the collection or maybe you can do more research or face, these artworks. What I did in the museum at the beginning in the collection department is in every year we have several routine to do so acquire new artworks, no matter is from the sculpture, painting, new media arts, or time media art, and then condition check for each kind of artworks, but time-based media artworks was checked in several years when I was there, but they still have some problem or issue from the acquisition. So we have several things we have to collect like the files and the certificate of authenticity. And if you have the tape, then you have to get the master tape. And also the original file. If we can get the uncompress file so several things. The whole concept is actually still growing it's not fixed. We still find out how can we improve this process or how can we improve this, workflow maybe? So in that time we started to look into media conservation and the first that we started to look at is Matters in Media Art website. At this point, we then started to know, oh, there's somebody already doing these things. And Yu-Hsien also do a lot of research so we're looking into it then based on her research, she collect a lot of the reference from the conservation of time-based media art. So we shared the material and talking to our cheif of the collection department then in 2015. Yu-Hsien and I, in the end, we organized a symposium, invited a lot of international speakers, like from Netherlands LIMA also VOCA in time. then the Japanese researcher and also from German, there's one speaker and also the America, like Jon Ippolito and yeah, so we organized the symposium then through this, we started learned about the conservation of new media art or time-based media art. We did another case study restoration and it's kind of more like mixture material installation. Instead of saying that is a time based media art. It's a painting. It was a film slide will project the image on the painting. And on the frame of the painting, you have the lighting you decorate the Christmas tree. So doing the music playing there was a beat or the, the light was shining with the beat. So originally this artwork should have a controller, to control everything for the light, for the projector, for the music. But when it came into the collection, the controller is missing So again, we are trying to figure out how to do this again. So at that time, I think I'm not civil service anymore. So I have a chance to stay to work in the museum. So I stayed and still work in the collection department not 100% to do the conservation of time-based media arts. Instead, I have to in charge of a project called Taiwan Tech Plus Art Innovation Project. So that project is funded from the ministry of culture and the main goal of this project is using technology to helping to combine with the other kind of art, not only new media art, or time mini art. So in our department, we implement this project, using the painting to produce like nowadays they're very popular to make into the VR or AR like these things. So in that time that's my main mission to do in the museum. So, meanwhile, about the conservation of new media art or time-based media art is once I have kind of free time, then I kind of sneak into the storage and do more about the conservation of new media art. Just take care of like, Involve into acquisition or because in the acquisition process, we have to also, the artists have to install their artwork. Then the committee will choose their work. So I will assist the artists to install their work in the storage room to demonstrate their artwork to the committee. So that is also part of my job.

[00:17:26] Ben: Wow. I mean, I think that this is very useful for people to hear, because I think that what you're describing is pretty common when you're not talking about one of the 10 biggest museums in the world that has, you know, maybe a dedicated time based media conservator, your situation isn't that uncommon. 

[00:17:45] Tzu-Chuan: Yeah, because the staffs in the department is not familiar with like digital media or computers. So when the things involved, the digital media or media art, then they will call me to help them, yeah. I will always involved.

[00:18:04] Ben: So. Fast forward to today and you are about to graduate this fall, fingers crossed

[00:18:14] Tzu-Chuan: Yes. I will try my best.

[00:18:17] Ben: Another master's degree. And now this one in the conservation of New Media and Digital Information at the State Academy of Fine Arts in Stuttgart. So I'm curious what led you to take that leap and what that experience has been like?

[00:18:37] Tzu-Chuan: So as I mentioned that we organize a symposium and there is a German speaker. Sorry, I forgot her name, but recommended me, if I want to study further on this conservation of new media or time-based media art, then I can go this university or do like fellowship in the ZKM so basically I think about it. After the symposium, it triggers me to interest in conservation of new media art and time based media art. So I ask her for the information and then I decided to prepare then to study to apply the university. Also in that time the head of the program is Johannes Gfeller. Before I applied this university, I trying to apply first to like a visa. You can learning the language first, then apply for the university. So I took kind of intensive German class and also in that time, I went to the studio of this master program, talked with Johannes Gfeller. I would like to apply. And since that time he kind of helped me also a lot then. So now . I'm almost finished my program. Our program is wide not only focus on the new media artwork, also like auto visual material, no matter analog or digital, and especially professor Johannes Gfeller he's a professional on the analog video. So he collect a lot, a lot of analog video equipment in our studio. So that's also interesting because in my age, I think I we are kind of, between the analog and digital. So we learned not only analog, but also digital things, digital preservation and the practice in archives. So, when the student in our program, when we graduate, we could go like library, archive, museums. But at the beginning, I already know. Yeah. I would like to focus on new media art. 

[00:21:07] Ben: So this year I was lucky enough to see you give, just really incredible presentation on, some of your conservation research and it was on the documentation and conservation of, Max MSP based works of art, which I was just so nerding out and excited to see because , it's a, very particular kind of material in artwork. And it's something that I think has been understudied within the conservation field. So I'm really excited that you're looking at this and I was, I was hoping you could, um, tell our listeners a bit about what you're working on.

[00:21:48] Tzu-Chuan: So I learned visual programming languages in the new media arts master degree, and I kind of interested in that. So we don't, I don't have to coding or writing the code instead of just link the square together, then produce kind of like image or sound in a real time. So it's fascinated to me to use it, to produce the artwork. And when I did the internship in the Kunstsammlung Nordrhein-Westfalen in Düsseldorf they have a software based artwork from Carsten Nicolai called Particle Noise and it's made with Max MSP. So it's a sound installation. And in that time I also started to search what kind of topic I would like to write in my master thesis. Because in our program, we are not only doing internship, but also we called conservation project. So based on that, I choose the case study of this artwork from Carsten Nicolai then produce the documentation of that like identity report. They already did a bit, but after they acquired the artwork, they are still not really familiar with that. as I did my intern there and I also helped them look into it, the old documentation and how could I improve it to do more. And also in that time, they are also planning to exhibit the artwork in the next year. So they are also contact with the artists because after they acquired the artwork, it was after the artist solo show, the artist took the computer back to their studio and say, yeah, they would upgrade the software and modify a bit. And the department, chief of the conservation, she connect to the artist and start to talking with them, the artist studio, and to prepare the exhibition installation. So using this kind of opportunity, when the artwork is reinstalled, then I could do more detail document. So I finished that and talk with the artist assistant about, how it function. After this, it triggered me to really want to combine this kind of interest together. So what I interest is visual programming language and also would like to do more research on conservation of software based artwork. Then I decided to focus on max MSP because it already has been 30 years already and it's quite old so I know that it's a lot of artists use this software, and for sure, museum they will have this kind of artwork. I also have another case study from ZKM and I took two case studies because I would like to show the, variety of the software you can use for sound installation you can use for , video, interactive installation, et cetera. So that makes it complicate because you could connect it to a lot of things, some kind of hardware, or even you can make your own hardware connect to that. So the challenge will be like it could be complicated in the hardware side because it could connect it a lot of things through Max MSP or it could be also complicated inside the program, the patch they call, they could be a lot of things in the program to produce the sound, for example. So the goal of my research will be like how I can do documentation of this because as we know for the programming language like C++, or Python or some kind of these things, uh, we can read the, source code and it's, texture, so you can look into the text then maybe understand the structure, but sometimes with the visual programing language, maybe there's no kind of rules or they just put the stuff into it and connect them, they get together, make it work or they make it more clearly to say, yeah, this part is for something for some function. And this part is for the other function. So that is kind of a way I would like to discover, how can the conservator document it? For me, it's also when I read some kind of earlier research or literature for the . Software based artwork, you have to document the behavior, but I don't know how to, because I still learning and. Most of the time we will describe using the text to describe the behavior, but for me, because my backgrounds from the visual base, like graphic, design, digital media. So for me, it's like, if I could see the diagram, how it works, maybe it would be better to understand. So that is also a point that I would like to think maybe I could combine with that because, not every museum or time-based media conservator can analyze the source code. So normally we'll collaboration with the other, like in NYU, they collaboration with the computer science department. And this is also not quite a case in Taiwan, but as you know, a lot of electronics device or chips, they're produced from Taiwan. So it's like we have the opportunity of the technology, but we didn't join the field together to focus on this. I mean, there's some opportunity maybe in Taiwan, we can do more. If we could cooperation with different field of the digital preservation in the information studies or computer science, then maybe we can grow the environment for the conservation of media art. That's maybe the future for me after my graduate. If I would like to go back to start up to my career in Taiwan, I won't go back to the museum. I will become like a freelancer. So that is necessary to become a bridge and to gathering the other professional into this field, then build an environment. We can do more than just in the art museum. I think that's is the next step. If I would like to go back to Taiwan to start my career. 

[00:29:51] Ben: As, somebody who's entering the field do you have any advice for somebody such yourself, 10 years ago, somebody who is maybe interested in getting into this field?

[00:30:03] Tzu-Chuan: If you study in the conservation of media art or contemporary art, I think beside the study, collect more practice experiments, as you can, do the internship in the museum. I think for me personally from the program, we didn't learn that much. It's very wide in our program. So once you focus on time based media, art conservation, then you have to pick. the opportunity to the museum like ZKM am in Germany or the contemporary art museum, then collect more practice, practice experiments because, there won't be many opportunity while you study in your program, you have to more active to find a chance I think.

[00:30:56] Ben: I know you're working way hard on finishing your master's thesis right now. After that what's coming next for you.

[00:31:03] Tzu-Chuan: I think I will try to stay in Germany or in Europe to find a job for media conservation. Then get some experiments in this country or in a foreign country. Then maybe go back to Taiwan, bring this experiments, then start my career there in my hometown. I think that's in the kind of far future, but it could be 

[00:31:34] Ben: I believe in you.

[00:31:35] Tzu-Chuan: Thank you.

[00:31:36] Ben: Well, Tzu-Chuan thank you so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate it. We've known each other for a few years now and it was just really nice to get to hear, so much of your story that I didn't know already. 

[00:31:47] Tzu-Chuan: Yes, thank you to invite me to join your show, that's my pleasure. 

[00:31:52] Ben: And thank you, dear listener for joining me for this week's show. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did. How about leaving a lovely little review for the show on your favorite podcast platform? As always, if you want to help support our work of compensating artists that come on the show, you can join our Patreon for as little as $1 a month, or if you are interested in making a one-time tax deductible gift, you can do so through our fiscal sponsor, the New York Foundation for the Arts, you'll find both options artandobsolescence.com/donate and there, you can also find the show notes and full transcript for the entire archive of the show. Until next time, have a great week my friends, my name is Ben Fino-Radin, and this has been Art and Obsolescence.