Episode 068 Jill Sterrett

Show Notes

In Episode 68, we sit down with Jill Sterrett, Director of Collections at the Wisconsin Historical Society. Before her tenure in Wisconsin, and even before her time as director at the Smart Museum of Art, Jill dedicated over 28 years to SFMOMA. There, she led the conservation department during its formative years, establishing SFMOMA as a pioneer in the field of time-based media conservation. Throughout Jill’s extensive career, from her early years at SFMOMA to her current work in Wisconsin, she's consistently challenged predefined norms. She combines a deep respect for traditional conservation methods with a drive for big-picture innovation. Tune in to hear Jill’s story!

Links from the conversation with Jill
> https://cool.culturalheritage.org/byorg/bavc/pb96/
> https://www.sfmoma.org/read/team-media-action-contemplation/
> https://www.getty.edu/conservation/publications_resources/newsletters/24_2/dialogue.html
> https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Cass: From Small Data Industries, this is Art and Obsolescence. I'm your host Cass Fino-Radin, and on this show, I chat with people that are shaping the past present and future of art and technology. This week we are visiting with someone who played an absolutely key role in the early development of the field of time-based media conservation. 

[00:00:20] Jill: I'm Jill Sterrett I'm glad to be here today speaking to you from Madison, Wisconsin, where, I have recently moved to help, envision and build a new history center at the foot of the Capitol. 

[00:00:32] Cass: I remember the very first time I was aware of Jill's work in the conservation field way back when I was just getting started in the field in my role at Rhizome while I was still in grad school. I was reading anything and everything. I could get my hands on about conservation. And I came across a transcript of an event hosted by the Getty Conservation Institute in 2010. And I distinctly remember like exactly where I was when I read this. And I read this quote from Jill that was just so galvanizing and made me feel lucky as though I was entering the field at just the right time. And I quote: "conventional thinking holds that in order to keep objects for future generations, we study the materials, we put them in dark storage and we monitor the environment and that we hope will sustain an object's life for hundreds of years. But what we've come up against with art made in the last 50 years, particularly installation based art. Is that if we do something like that, that is a sure sign of its demise... there are skillsets that serve a more traditional mode of conservation. And there are skill sets emerging that underpin success for people working with contemporary art. And they're not always one in the same conservation has always called for analytical thinking. But now we're looking for abstract thinkers who are comfortable synthesizing solutions rather than master practitioners. We're looking for people who are master facilitators in many ways, that demands skills that are different from those require. Choir to restore a Rembrandt spectacularly." end quote. During her time at SF MoMA first in conservation, and then heading up all of collections and conservation, Jill oversaw the institution's role in really shaping how the conservation field thought about time-based media art. I know she's been a major influence on my practice as a conservator, and I consider myself so lucky to call her a friend and a mentor and I'm just so thrilled to share this conversation with you all today where we not only dive into Jill's origin stories and hear about what she built at SF MoMA, but also of course, the adventures that she has been up to since leaving San Francisco in 2018. Before we get started just an editor's note that Jill and I had this chat way back in January so take that into consideration, I suppose. So anyway enough intro, let's get into it without further delay let's dive in to this week's chat with Jill Sterrett. 

[00:02:56] Jill: I am the second of four children in a terrific family, from Chicago. My mom was a maker and my dad was a storyteller and my grandfather was a fixer. I actually moved overseas and lived in Southeast Asia and Europe for most of my childhood. I actually thought I'd probably originally end up living and working in a place like Indonesia and working at Borobudur. I was very interested in those, sites and in those cultural questions. It wasn't until I, got into conservation, which happened, in graduate school at Cooperstown that I realized that my hand skills, were very, very much aligned to paper conservation and, that drawings were, windows into a mind and a soul and I really loved both of those qualities. I also think I realized that I have been asking historical questions rather than art historical questions most of my life. The pivot to contemporary art, was a really exciting moment for me because I, realized that it was the provisionality of contemporary art that was interesting. The fact that you were getting to know an artwork at its infancy, and it was impossible to lock down meaning, for something like that. And that was super exciting. And I just fell in love with work with artists. I, graduated in the mid eighties from the Cooperstown program, it may be the last class in Cooperstown, and I was a paper conservator. I moved to Washington DC and did my internship at the Library of Congress. Uh, those questions around library collections and, and also the generosity of libraries was really attractive to me. At the end of that internship, that's the moment when people are seeking, professional pathways for, working that international bug that I had as a child really took hold and I felt, relatively young compared to my, fellow students. And I probably was, I wanted to travel around the world. And so I moved to Canberra, Australia. was supposed to go for nine months and I ended up staying for two years and I sort of thought I would move there. I fell in love with Australia I worked at the National Library of Australia and I worked with a private conservator out in the bush named Kerry McGinnis. And it was a real pivot for me professionally, but I would also say that when I finally did return to the US. What the pivot was about was something much more personal. I had really fallen in love with the landscape of, Australia and it's probably what led me to the west coast. I didn't have any connection to California prior to that, but I was seeking, a lifestyle, that I had grown to love, and a lot of folks advised me just head west. The Pacific and the Atlantic are two very different bodies of water and the fact that Eucalypt were introduced, they're all over Northern California was extremely attractive. I moved to San Francisco and the first position I held was as a Getty Fellow at the Achenbach, which is at the Fine Arts Museums of San Francisco. I ended up being there for, a year on the Getty Fellowship and, continued on, on contract. It was a life choice to stay out there that made me start my own business, which I ran for a couple of years. The rest is history. I started at SFMOMA in 1990. 

[00:06:30] Cass: We've had a few conservators on the show at this point, most people understand conservation based on what they see in like TV and movies. But of course, it's, it's so much more than that. You have always done a great job of shedding light on the broader expansiveness of what a conservator does in dealing with contemporary art, including time-based media. If you were to explain it to somebody, who isn't coming from this world at all, what would you say the job of a conservator of contemporary art is?

[00:06:58] Jill: It's many things, and one of the factors that I wanna protect because there are many, traditionally held principles and, skills that we need to uphold in the field. There are all kinds of ways to practice conservation and have always advocated for, a broad swath of skills in this field, and people finding their particular place. I have been very much engaged in reframing the questions that matter at the root of memory and at the root of meaning making for people. So let me give you an example. We all learn to care for a collection and we focus very much on what that collection is. What it is intellectually, spiritually, materially. I started to reframe that question a long time ago to ask actually, what does it do, why do we collect? And then also for whom, what does it do? in conservation, we're so often looking at, a physical thing in front of us, a work that we're trying to focus on. And then the more that I came to work with artists, I still cared about what it meant to collect that object, but I became obsessed with what it meant to collect also that artist's practice, because those two things together, felt inextricably linked. I wish for a field of conservation that has room for all of these different inputs, and that we can attract people who, come with a wide array of skills so that we can put it toward, this, basic task of meaning making for people.

[00:08:40] Cass: It seems to me that the mid nineties, were in many ways the foundational years for the field of time-based media conservation, which of course, SFMOMA was a big part of, you know, SFMOMA was one of the centers of this activity with numerous conferences and exhibitions and research papers from those early years, you know, that really helped define this burgeoning discipline in conservation. What did those early years in time-based media conservation look like?

[00:09:06] Jill: There's a lot of luck and there's a lot of right time, right place, particularly what grew out of SFMOMA at that time. And, you know, we had a director, Jack Lane, who was an, a particular kind of leader. He had named, Bob Riley as the media arts curator, and I believe SFMOMA still maintains that they had the first dedicated media arts department in an American museum. And it's not really surprising, given the energy of the Bay Area, but people matter and people in positions like that really matter. When we sat together in a conservation department to understand how we were going to address media arts, we didn't have people who were expert in those areas. it boiled down to. Three of us a registrar named Jane Wiseman, and it was a media tech named, Justin Graham. And it was me and It was three of us saying, what the heck are we gonna do? We have gaps in our skill sets and we don't have procedures and protocols, and we don't really understand what conservation means. There was tremendous freedom in, those moments because no one was really looking. In many ways it put us in this position of being frontiers. And it was probably attractive to, a more intrepid soul, that kind of problem solving. but I think at its root it was about curiosity and problem solving.

[00:10:41] Cass: What did you look to in order to inform your approach? What were you reading? were you talking to that really helped shape your strategy and philosophy around time-based media conservation?

[00:10:55] Jill: So first and foremost, we listened to the artists. This was one of the doorways that was open always, is the way that we were working with artists. They were experimenting with these new technologies. Everybody was learning on the fly. We also had the Bay Area Video Coalition in our midst, I wanna pay tribute to that. In particular to Luke Hones and Sally Joe Pfeiffer, who set, preservation as a priority, for the Bay Area Video Coalition. It was convenient, but also a really important partnership. We had collectors, Jack Lane and curator, John Caldwell had sparked a great deal of interest in the Bay Area among collectors. So notably the Kramlichs but it was a cohort of collectors who were all very excited about, this direction of collecting. all of those things came together, and those people were encouraging us, to build knowledge. But it was a lot of experimentation. I think of Mary Lucier the work in SFMOMA's collection that I'm thinking about is a work called Dawn Burn.  She was in New York. Sony Portapaks had just been released. She was interested to play with it. The one thing that she was told was never point it to the sun. These are recollections that have been recorded, so you can find this. But, as I recall it, Mary said, so of course the first thing I did was pointed at the sun and she recorded the sun's passage, over the Hudson, and it was a work that, we had the Portapak masters. We were thinking about what remastering meant. You know, we were looking at, all of the changes that were starting to occur when you were doing video remastering. It was also a time when we were exploring what the thresholds for Okay and not okay were, and Mary was an incredibly interesting voice in that process. That's an example of how we were working with artists. I can give you another example from Howard Fried. Justin Graham and I wrote about this, but there's a work by Howard Fried called 1970 that's recalling baby names that were popular in that year. And we had this question of original equipment and all of us, including, Howard, thought the original equipment was absolutely essential that the work wouldn't live without it. And I'll never forget literally making gears for which the plastic had just fatigued. Right. Making gears out of plastic called delrin. We couldn't make them fast enough because every original gear we had was just, fatigued plastic. That little gear and how essential that was. We hit a wall, realizing that we were gonna have to come up with a different approach than just keeping original equipment. Many of the works that were coming in were single channel video at the time, and a lot of the focus had to do with setting up, practices and protocols for managing single channel video. That was big enough for the field and also for this partnership with, the Bay Area Video Coalition. 'cause we were working with them as, a service bureau at the time. Single channel video was an easy priority for us. When I consider how we did it, in my mind, what's blending is what I know now about this, and it's hard for me to separate those two things. I believe it's pretty important to listen to the contours of your collection and listen to the financial constraints or, opportunities that exist to read the program that you're trying to achieve. I think it's really, really important to start there in setting priorities wherever you are. The system for prioritizing really comes from the institution itself. And at SFMOMA, what became a guiding factor for, well on two decades is that we would prioritize works that we were acquiring, works that we were displaying and works that we were sending out on loan. And in large part why we did that was because we realized that our colleagues across the institution were focused on the same work at the same time and that we could leverage that attention across the institution to do good things. We weren't asking anyone to do anything that was outside of their working day. I was at the bench probably for about 10 years at SFMOMA, and then for a two year period, I became the head of conservation. And then at the end of that period of time, SFMOMA had created a structure called the Collections Division, which was 70 people, and 70 departments and that's what I did for 16 years and I just wanted to call that out because I am a conservator. I love hands-on work. I always did it outside of my working day in the institution. It's really important to me and it's also brings great joy. I had to reckon with the fact that, I loved bench work, but my primary conversation every day was with an object that was inanimate. It was saying things to me, but it wasn't really talking to me. And I realized I was a social being I like to be in discussion. I like to be thinking out loud with people about these objects that we keep and that we, believe, are there to serve people. I was gonna have to wrestle with that. And so I did very early on in my career. I also at the very same time, was coming up with a real problem that I had with the field.  I had this incredibly privileged access to things. I could touch them, I could smell them, I could lick them if I wanted to it was the conservator's prerogative. And yet in the very same breath, the conservator had the role of policing that access for everybody else. And that disconnect was troublesome for me. I didn't really understand how anybody in the public was supposed to get the kind of intimate relationship that I could build with an artist when we put so many barriers, to engagement in place. I say this from the point of view of today, it was a social justice issue for me that I, realize we talk much more about now. but there was an issue of fairness there that I didn't quite understand. And I never have begrudged or, stopped believing in the tenets of preventive care but I also started to understand what science supported and what science didn't support. And I wanted to help think about, pathways for, opening better access to the public. The opportunity to be sitting at these other tables where conversation is happening about the way museums work and the way they operate as learning institutions was immensely attractive to me. But it was never, other than conservation, it was with the possibility of bringing conservation to that discussion.

[00:18:19] Cass: What are the biggest shifts or changes or things or ways of thinking that have evolved over the years? 

[00:18:27] Jill: All kinds of different examples innovations in society that begin as a bit of the wild west it's margin activity. It's happening out there at the edges and then it comes into the center. and this is really the track of culture. I can't really speak to a lot of the details of time-based media conservation now 'cause I'm really not in it and I haven't been for the last couple of years. But I do see this immense professionalization, like extraordinary sophistication. sasha arden worked with us at SFMOMA and it has been breathtaking for me to see their work. The building team media, we haven't really talked about team media, but that working structure came at SS SFMOMA from not having a time-based media conservator on staff. And it came from the energy of Jane Wisebeen, and Justin Graham and I working together across disciplinary boundaries to try to solve problems. And it set a tone and built a culture for the way that, things would work. And while that was immensely satisfying that work of team media over the years, and I think it still exists. From the point of view of 2023, I think about how, bold and courageous we might've thought we were from the perspective of today, it feels like child's play compared to, the issues of social and racial and environmental equity that we're dealing with right now. Or, grappling with the inherited traditions of these collecting museums and the colonial empires that helped to make the modern day museum. For me, the major seismic shift of now is how do we take all the focus knowledge that we had on mediums and working with artists and how do we actually make room at the table for our publics? That is a very, very big, uncharted territory, particularly in the field of conservation. It's not that it hasn't been experimented with, but we have a lot of work to do there.

[00:20:34] Cass: So after many years at, SFMOMA, you moved on to your next adventure, so I guess I'm, I'm super curious to know what you're working on these days.

[00:20:46] Jill: So, SFMOMA was in the midst of a very large expansion from 2010 to 2016, the new building opened, I had been there 26 years maybe at the time, and had had a few jobs. It was one of those moments to rethink, what would come next. I didn't leave because I wanted to leave SFMOMA per se. There was an opportunity to think some new ideas and we had done so much work there to think about, how to be better stewards of contemporary art. That I really was interested in expanding the view and maybe not confining our work to one institution, but trying to think about how to problematize that work for the field. That led in 2018. So I left SFMOM A in 2018, and that led me to the University of Chicago, and to the Smart Museum of Art in large part because the University of Chicago, being the research university that it is, it seemed like there was an incredible possibility to do this kind of work and thinking on behalf of cultural heritage, but also, the museum sector. The smart museum was in a extraordinary moment of transformation. I accepted the job of deputy director there, in 2018 and was in that position for a year. And then, after a year, the director stepped down and I was the director of the museum for the next year. I stepped down after one year and went on contract to finish a particular project that we had started and was incredibly influential. The University of Chicago interlude was really important in shaping what I'm doing now. I have immense respect for the University of Chicago. I, I met really smart people and the, the undergraduates at the University of Chicago were just the delight of my working days there. What I learned very, very quickly, however, is that, the University lived up to its reputation as being a place of theory and not practice and that museums are places of practice. And that if we were going to problematize this question of the museum, that it couldn't be a theoretical construct. We had to be able to put new ways of operating into action in the museum. And when the pandemic did hit and we were grappling with so many issues, racial, social, biologic, it was an extraordinary time. I simply had to look in the mirror and ask if this is where I needed to be 'cause I wanted to be in a place where, change was happening and where action was happening, and decided that I would leap to do that. When I left full-time, I stayed on contract to complete this project with Abby Winograd, and it was year long project in 2021, we actually managed to plan it and then, and realize it through, all of this tumult. It became instrumental in some of the ways that I, think about work now. I still, am on contract with the University of Chicago because Abby and I are co-editing a book on the project and to do it after the project was over has allowed us to actually not only ruminate on what happened, but also collect concrete feedback. That question of, what does a collection do? What does art do, is something that we could actually ask those people who attended those 19 venues. And it's a very honest book that we're aiming to put together and it'll launch the middle of this year. I'm still a conservator, co-editing this book. We're all, many things, but. Winograd Sterrett is a curatorial conservation partnership because we're bringing those sensibilities to bear in the way that we're thinking about these larger questions of, what museums do and how we're creating effective learning organizations for our communities. I had never, over the course of my life, not reported to work every day, really. It was absolutely new and fresh for me to work on contract and to consider residencies and projects that would allow me to. Put pen to paper and think about some serious writing. So I was really grateful when the Getty made it possible for me to be out in LA for a large part of 2021, to work on some writing projects. And I would say the focus of all of them have been about this venture of collecting. Ownership, possession, collecting is all part of something that I wanted to get to the bottom of. And I wanted to understand how it flows to the practices of all of the different experts that we have, regularized in museum structures, including conservation. Another question that has been really front and center for me is, looking at universal standards of care, which are certainly the things that I remember learning in graduate school, thinking instead about people in place-based standards of care, that map to not only something as practical as the conditions of climate, but map to the cultural modes of access that are indeed distinct around the globe. How could we allow conservation and that notion of practice, some people say best practices, I learned the Getty no longer uses that phrase at the GCI, the collections team has decided not to use that because it does connote that there's one, and in fact, depending on what the collection is, what part of the globe in which it's situated, how many people are working on behalf of that collection and what their programs are. You can describe your own best practices. You can describe your own models, and I love that the Getty has adopted this. I think the NEH adopted this back in 2011, so it's not a particularly new concept, to think about conservation that way just brings air into the room. I have become really interested in working with institutions that are drilling down on that care for their collection, which is deeply rooted in a, commitment to community. So that was the residency and, I now live in Wisconsin. I've had long standing roots in Wisconsin, spent much of the pandemic up in a cabin in the far north woods and really fell in love with it. Parenthetically, but also quite instrumentally, I'm getting another degree right now in Native American studies from the Ojibwe University in Lac Courte Oreilles or Hayward, Wisconsin. And that degree has as much to do with living in the North woods, as it also had to do with the reckoning with inherited practices within institutions and so this is a really exciting new chapter. And so when I thought what next, there was this opportunity at the Wisconsin Historical Society, and I wanna say a little bit about that collection, that came available in the summer and it felt as if it had dropped from the sky for me because this is a collection of about 290 million items. it predates statehood in Wisconsin. It was formed in 1846. It looks and feels not on scale like the Library of Congress, but it's more like that than your average historical society. And it sits with its home base in Madison, but it has 12 sites across the city. It has as many area research centers, and history affiliates across the state. So the position of Director of Collections was incredibly attractive to me, but also because right here in the capital of Wisconsin at the foot of the Capitol is a building project where we are actively envisioning and building a new history center for the people of Wisconsin. It's scheduled to open in 2027. So this is a place of theory and practice coming together, but, a real project that's situated at this space of change and transformation. where, political fighting words are quite real. For all of those reasons, it was, really interesting for me to consider coming here. I'd come to really understand the mechanics of big, robust art museums and contemporary art museums at that, and I'm testing right now, whether all the assumptions that I apply in thinking about how museums do their work, how they actually play out in history museums, and I'm finding some really interesting differences.

[00:30:12] Cass: So it sounds like that move for you geographically, but also in terms of discipline is kind of like deeply intertwined maybe not even in intentional ways perhaps, but in ways that sound like really enriching to one another.

[00:30:26] Jill: Absolutely that's why it seems like it's a detour to talk about another degree in Native American studies, but I'm getting the degree with two close friends and, we're in our fourth semester of Ojibwe language. it's really hard. It's really hard. It's a language of morphemes, so it's a really different way of structuring speech. But for any of us who speak a second language, you, you do understand to read Gabriel García Márquez in Spanish is different than to read the translation. I mean, that, something that wasn't new, but the extraordinary insights into Ojibwe culture that are coming through the degree, but also these language classes are. Part of the personal reckoning that I've been doing with our industry, because the best that I can imagine doing as somebody who devoted, over 30 years to this industry, is to operate in a space of constructive disruption right now about the ways that we could see doing things differently, about how things might be done differently. And that starts by making visible all these other value sets that were here a long time ago, really long time ago, right? And so it's all, incredibly inspiring when I think about work that we do in conservation collections and in museums. Sometimes, commonly held perception that I'm no longer a conservator and I, like I am, I still am. You know, I think that this kind of critical thinking can be viewed as negative, but it's precisely because of my love of these organizations and these practices that I wanna ask the hard questions. We have to, in order to refresh ourselves for, the challenges of today and for the world that we're living in. And if we don't ask those things, honestly, we're kind of doomed.

[00:32:26] Cass: I agree. I, I think that conversations about change in institutions and rethinking paradigms, it comes from a place of care and of love because it just has to happen if you want it to continue to exist, which we do.

[00:32:41] Jill: Well, and, and you know, when you don't care, you don't do anything. I mean, so, so the idea that's, that's the other evidence that it comes from a place of care, right? Is that you're doing something so.

[00:32:53] Cass: So we've been talking at the kind of 10,000 foot view for a little while now. Thinking about somebody who's maybe interested in getting into, let's say the, museum field writ large, doesn't have to be just conservation. Considering everything that you are writing about and thinking about these days, what advice would you have for somebody like that who's thinking about getting into the field?

[00:33:16] Jill: It's been for me, incredibly fruitful and also gratifying, compelling, inspiring career. That's just my recounting of what it's meant to be doing this work for, for many decades now. I do think there are present day realities, like I'm pretty sure I would never have gotten in if I applied today. I think that there are some very specific skills that I believe we need moving forward. And I think they're different than the ways that we have typically evaluated potential students. Uh, we need people who are interested in being in dialogue and who are able to network and who have an interest in how our work serves better lives for people. those are really important issues and, and I hope the field makes room for that kind of thinking. I realize that I'm not saying it should supplant the incredibly important, analytical work and hand skills that go into doing effective treatments. I'm advocating for a field that sees itself through, a, a wider lens and that can really operate that way. So it's a hard field to get into, know what you wanna get out of it, understand the realities of practicing. there's financial realities that. We really need to attend to so that people can have a career and make a living wage and be able to live a high quality life themselves. those are all things that I care about. But once a young person has really come to grips with all of those different factors, if they're still in, then the field needs them.

[00:35:05] Cass: Well, I'm curious to hear more about your writing 

[00:35:06] Jill: So I told you about the Toward Common Cause book but you know, the thing that is so interesting to me is that we're working with a woman named Susan Chun, who's, my age and has worked at big art museums for, as long a time in publications and in content arenas and we have a real thought partner, because she's even thinking about the different ways that books are being made right now and how they might be made differently. We discussed we're not even calling it a catalog, it's the anti catalog. But the release of a book two years after an exhibition is mixing with the cadence of operations as we know it. And Susan's really interested in that. So the book that we're co-editing right now is chaptered by conditions that, people have been experiencing in the last. A couple of years. So, the chapter headings are uncertainty and agency and experimentation. And in those chapters are, lead essays from all kinds of contributors to the show, but also the work of artists and discussions with artists, discussions with community members in Chicago. The designer, a guy named, Dylan Fracareta, has created a, design for the book that basically reserves the margins for annotations. So you know how we all read books and we write in the margins. The book will have annotations from anybody who wants to comment on or who has read these pieces and wants to comment either in agreement or disagreement. the book will have that feel to it as well. We're super excited about this and the chapter that I'm writing is the last chapter, and its entitled Discomfort. It for me has been a real personal journey of reckoning in the last few years and why this project was interesting and the way in which I have recast discomfort to be something, quite generative as opposed to something that you try to veer away from and never feel, it's kind of essential to the work that we're doing to, think about museums is to live with that discomfort.

[00:37:19] Cass: Well Jill, thank you so much for taking the time and coming on the show. This has been so incredible to, really hear the telling of your story and your past and evolution and I'm just so thrilled to read the catalog that you have coming out. And it's just really exciting to hear the work that you're doing now. So thank you so much. 

[00:37:35] Jill: Thank you. It's been my pleasure.

[00:37:38] Cass: And thank you, dear listener for joining me for this conversation with Jill Sterrett, as always, if you like what you're hearing on the show listeners support is hugely important to make it all happen. You can always join us over at patreon.com/artobsolescence, or if you are interested in making a one-time tax deductible gift through our fiscal sponsor the New York Foundation for the Arts, you can do so artandobsolescence.com/donate and there, you can also find the full episode archive, including full transcripts and show notes. And last but not least, you can always find us on Instagram @artobsolescence. Until next time take care of my friends. My name is Cass Fino-Radin and this has been Art and Obsolescence.